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| *Vultures Knob>>>Road Bike |
Should I consider a cyclocross? |
Looking for a road bike that can handle country and city roads. I was looking at a fuji cross comp and the Schwin fastback cx and was liking the bigger more rugged tires as compared to the very thin tires on most road bikes. Looking at road rides from 25 to 50 miles per day. Maybe an occasional crushed limestone trail. Want something above entry level. Budget is about $650 to $700. Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I picked up a Specialized hybrid for a few hundred over your budget. Also for the reason of the WHEEL BUILD. Three cross, 36 spoke. I am a little too heavy at this point to hop on one of the common race wheels now! Maybe in a year or two. Anyways, a hybrid is probably what you want, but if it comes with knobby tires, you might convince the shop to swap them out with a set of good slicks. You don't want to ride that far on knobbies. And the slicks should be fine on the limestone, if it is anything at all like a smooth dirt path. If you're on the Hotter than Hll Hundred bike tour in Wichita Falls, TX, this August 26th, I'm sure you'll see which cyclocross ride at the head of the pack and which do not. Of the "road-ish," Schwinn Fastback CX and Super Sport is very noticable as is Specialized Roubaix and Cirrus. And you'll see them, no doubt, running head to head, along with. . . Of the "mountain," different because of suspension forks and very "hybrid" looks, you'll see Diamondback's Windwood, Edgewood, Wildwood Dlx, confounding high speed performance. This is VERY amusing!!! To see the cheap looking Diamondback with its epic length seapost, very sloping top tube and big tires flashing past the majority of road bikes, right up on the heels of the pro racers, causing no end of panic in weekend warriers that got passed in a flash--Oh yes--Very amusing! I do like the Schwinn bike you mentioned. It is very speedy. I'd put super strong Rol Areo wheels on it with 20 tough blade spokes each (standard rear, custom front--phone order). That fixes the usual slow sprint seen on cyclocross (aka hybrid) bikes. Ah! While we're in that area, do please avoid anything with less than 20 spokes that cannot be set for the rider or uneven spacing between spokes with their pointless weight and rough ride. Why are we talking about wheels? Well, we're going to talk about price range. The major difference between price ranges are these: 1) Efficient wheels, tough, light, smooth 2) Efficient crankset, hardened alloy chainrings 3) A finer grade of brakes (lighter weight) end of list. If paying more does not buy you those, then question why. As most bikes in the bike store and in the following example, price range does not have much merit: Compare the Schwinn Super Sport with the Super Sport GS. There is not any any difference in speed noticable with a hands-on test drive. Weight is similar and still below Trek's Pilot. The GS could have gone a lot faster with great wheels. Instead, you get a heap of useless technology changes that aren't effective, along with the bonus of a finer appearance. Why? Surpassing several competitors road bikes in speed and weight range was considered "enough" at half the price. Although Schwinn is always a good value, they did not increase a hybrid's performance because they also sell "ergo" (modern) road bikes. This is also a cyclocross fit and speeds would be identical. As seen in that example, a test drive had merit, price did not. Test drive please. I'm thinking of your description, but that brings me to a question. . . I don't know if you want to switch between 2 sets of wheels, one for road and one for mountain? Or if you want a bike setup that naturally does both? A higher end cyclocross usually requires a tire change to switch between road and gravel--otherwise the result is exactly like a road bike on gravel or a mountain bike on pavement. Racing application specific tire changes are expected of the high end cyclocross. Generally, "Yuck!" unless you keep two sets of wheels for an instant clip-on swap. Note, all of the bikes mentioned here are cyclocross, and all are optimized for road use, paved and gravel. First off, a no-tire-change approach. . . There are two wheelsets known for high road speed, quick grace on gravel and terrible mountain technical "jumping" performance. There is one that comes on bikes in your price range. But, don't tune out when you hear what it is. The last part of this long answer contains the one difference between: 1) It doesn't look like a road bike 2) It actually works And, you can fix the difference for about $14. What is the wheel I need for mixed surface road speed? It is Weinmann's XC 26" wheelset(s). (The other is WTB Dual Duty 26" XC--at the high end level, yet not much more price.) These have the width of a road bike wheel--very narrow. Performance of the Weinmann XC is similar to most of the common Alex road bike wheels, yet far more useful tires fit the 26" XC. Any reason for a negative review of this wheel is because it wasn't trued when new after 30 days and after 90 days as is required for any machine made wheel used for cyclocross. The class of bike that will be the most convenient is a lightweight XC racer. But, that same speed sometimes comes with some luxury. . . It is seen on Diamondback's mountain comfort hybrid class Wildwood Deluxe, which also carries a lovely 24 speed Shimano drivetrain. With the following 2 items, and a smallish looking fit, performance of a lightweight 26" hybrid like Rivendell Atlantis and Diamondback Wildwood Deluxe, can be optimized to ride right along with the road touring group, even if it just came off a gravel road. Kenda Kross Plus Yellow Label (the yellow label is the premium model, with lighter weight, flat protection, and actually has a yellow label that belongs on the drive side of the bike). Speed on pavement, smooth grace on gravel, $10 each. Use with high performance XC racing tubes for a light weight. Best speed is on the narrow road-ish XC rims. Other velvet center, knobbie sided tires could fare similar, but I have not tested those because they lacked flat protection so necessary on a gravel road. Kool Stop (MTB labeled) brake pads don't eat rims. They don't squawk! They can also modulate (if set a bit crooked) to keep a bike under smooth control on a gravel downhill. Specifically, these are extremely powerful brake pads that you can angle a bit off, still with lots of power, but adding the precise variety of control you need to prevent wheel lock on gravel. A smallish looking fit is necessary for todays hybrids, and this is true regardless of wheel size. Expect to show a lot of seat post, and you'll get a fast speed from the bike. Didn't want to hear about a hybrid? A cyclocross varies only by price. Want 700c wheels? So, here goes with the big wheels: You can expect decent cyclocross performance from your current road bike if you install the largest that will fit of Panaracer T-Serv 700c, and that's probably 28mm or rarely 32mm. This will also keep full road performance intact. Other 700c alternatives include, Schwinn Fastback CX, Schwinn Super Sport, Diamondback Edgewood/Winwood series, Specialized Cirrus and almost all steel road bikes that have tire clearance, such as Rivendell, Surly, and many others. Expect non-classic fits of cyclocross to show more seatpost--every newer model aluminum CX, XC, mixtie and hybrid. Of course, the highest seatpost will show on the comfort centric bikes, if fitted/sized for speed. The 700c wheels are contraindicated for speed with an application that requires a large tire for grace on gravel. That's because there's more wheel and so much more tire that speed is diminished. The 29'er as these are called are known for being especially taxing on hills. Still, you can find a very few of the smooth center, knobbie sided tires that are large enough to handle gravel. Most are not, and prove slippery, despite appearance. That's because most of these are narrower than their 26" cousins in order to compensate for the large weight gain of the 700c tires. The result is a dodgy ride at reduced performance. Oh, but that's not what I want either?? That's okay because areo handlebars cost about $14. . . What? You'll sort of have to make what you want. It is easy, but you must have very narrow 26" wheels for a multi-surface bike to succeed with both grace and speed. This means you can use Panaracer Pasela Folding Tourguard 26x1.25 and other "about an inch" authentic road bike tires. . . mixtie tires like Kenda Kross Plus. . . and authentic mountain tires. DANGER: Do avoid slicks, which are either the slowest possible or crash on wet and crash in the corners--yes, please avoid slicks in favor of authentic tires. Any temptation towards a mountain slick should be redirected toward the faster Panaracer T-Serv, with sizes from 1.25 to 1.75 and ability to come to a screeching stop on top of a wet, greasy manhole lid. The high price tag also buys considerable medical cost savings. Why? Isn't a mountain slick a road bike tire? No. A road bike tire has a knife's edge contact, but a mountain slick has just a little round circle that puts pressure in no particular direction, going sideways as easily as forwards. Avoid this gimmick. Since none of the slicks, nor the touring tires work as well as Kenda Kross Plus yellow label on pavment or gravel, let's go on to the bike. . . Start with an XC racer and install "dirt drop" 25.4" clamp diameter drop bars (very inexpensive). The shifters go on either side of the stem, cyclocross style. These usually come with a "105 level" LX crankset. Look for the road-ish sizes of 28, 38, 48 or, You can simply plug in "Ultegra level" quality with a Sugino XD600, 26, 36, 46 crankset onto the existing square taper bottom bracket (UN73). Look for an 11-32 rear cassette. The 11-34 variety is not road style. OR, a supreme blend of comfort and speed fused together with a smallish Mountain Comfort Hybrid (same as XC racer, but shows more seatpost), and install narrowest size (narrow is areo) alloy "North Road" or "alabatross" handlebars "upside down" (dropped) and wrapped up just like drop bars. This is the "moustache" or "wilted arrow" as seen on pro tourbikes. The shifters still go near the stem, cyclocross style, cross the front in a "moustache" like appearance. Please don't put these upright like a 3-speed--no, they go down like drop bars even if you need to hike the stem up a bit. Specifically, the front grip is areo and much like a popular time trial grip, while the backswept portion gives leverage for hills, is comfortable and should be tipped down a bit to match your wrist angle. The fastest of these handlebars are Nitto 19" albatross from speedgoat.com, and are incompatible with revo/grip shift. Other versions, such as Pyramid Alloy North Road are 22" or 23" wide and work with all mountain shifters. Want high end? Okay. Pop a $67 Sugino XD600 all-alloy touring crankset right into place. Use a light brake, like a better "Tektro Mini." Choose a bike with an 8 speed 11-32 rear drive already installed. Those high end WTB 26 XC rims mentioned some time ago are available seperately or as wheels with LX or better hubs from any vendor to carry the Quality Bike Parts catalog, such as aebike.com and harriscyclery.com web sites. In fact, Harris Cyclery's website is a good place to learn about pro tourbikes that can handle multiple surfaces. Other top hints: The weight of suspension forks may be at no cost to or beneficial to average speed on a bike that travels a rougher surface. Why? This prevents "slapback." That is the term for the front wheel/spoke/tire effect that causes an exponential decrease in speed when the bike "jolts" and "pushes" a road abberation instead of merely rolling over it. Suspension forks can result in great cost savings to a cyclocross with a 700c wheel size. Why? Because the 28mm areo rimmed "botique" wheels with very fat blades, cyclocross rating, and unfortunately 16 spoke front wheel are at a very low price for high end equipment, and can be protected from "slapback" by the suspension forks. Already weird looking in factory condition, a little 700c Diamondback Winwood / Edgewood with the "wilted arrow" areo handlebar treatment, and such beautiful featherweight and strong wheels (Rol Areo $200) is faster, lighter, and not even understandable on sight. But, it can certainly perform better than many more expensive 700c cyclocross. Fitting systems for cyclocross are far different than road bike. Please don't go by the traditional standover height method on non-traditional frames. That results in a large-ish "trainer" which is a drug-free alternative for rapid strength increase due to a combination of the road bike's high power output facilitation with the harsh inefficiency of an overlarge fit. Why? Different than traditional, modern ergo road bikes and almost all cyclocross have very large jumps in top tube lengths, quickly defeating those who would buy a larger size to get an easier reach. Please do extensive test driving of any bike that comes in "lettered" sizes (S, M, L, XL) and get the fastest one, no matter how funny it looks. ;) Well, as long as you can ride with your back flat (not hunched) if you so choose. Here are some distance approximations: Pavement 700c Cyclocross: 100 miles 700c Cyclocross 1 size up: 40 miles (exercise) 26" XC racer: 120 miles 700c road hybrid: 100 miles 700c road hybrid 1 size down: 220 FAST miles 26" mountain comfort hybrid: 80 miles 26" mountain comfort hybrid 1 size down: 290 miles. Gravel 700c with mixtie tire: 4 miles 700c with 28mm road tire: 4 miles 700c with largest mountain tire: 20+ miles 26" with mixtie tire: 50+ miles I'm not telling you to run out and buy a hybrid, but I am saying that it would be a big mistake to avoid them. That's because these have more R&D budget and more developments than any other bike due to having the largest market segment. Of course, manufacturers do everything under the sun for stunning performance on their largest market segment. None are slow unless they're too large. Enjoy your test drives!!! Cyclo cross would be good for these ridding conditions. It would depend if you do other stuff over the weekend, but does not really matter with a versatile bike! Take as many as you can for a spin before you buy, untill you find one that is comfy for you. just make sure that the frame is the correct size!! Dont forget to look at the 29" mtb! bike mechanic and store manager. |
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